A New Makeover: Remodeling Discipleship From Within

“We can see that the changes had an impact in the way we intended because the Co-lab gave us these tools to put it all together.”

               -Katie-Lee Harrison, Children’s Church Director and Wife of Pastor Jon Harrison

Greensburg Christian Church

What happens when a church intentionally examines the role of discipleship from within? The church begins to rework its ministry to form a solid pathway towards spiritual growth. The end result is a stronger, more effective discipleship model that engages both the adults and the children on a church wide, congregational level never seen before. 

Two years ago, founder Mike Johnson began a discipleship partnership with Greensburg Christian Church in a Church Discipleship Co-lab along with another church in the community. Mike coached our church with the Ascending Leaders framework of discipleship growth.  Since then, this small church in rural Kansas has undergone phenomenal transformation. Katie-Lee Harrison shares the steps they took and the results they are now seeing. 

What was it like when you started working with Mike?

It was very comfortable.  It didn’t feel like an outsider coming in to tell us how to do things.  We were instant friends working towards the same goal.  That gave us more freedom to dig into what discipleship looks like at our church because there was camaraderie, not like a teacher student experience.

How was discipleship previously at GCC?

At the beginning, we didn’t know what we were doing.  Mike really enabled us to figure out for ourselves what we were supposed to be doing.  We didn’t have a discipleship plan at all.  We didn’t know what discipleship looked like.  We knew we should have a Bible study.  We knew people should come to church on Sunday.  We knew that we should love God and love other people, but what exactly were we running towards and what was our goal?

What is something you have learned?

Jon and I have come from other churches in bigger areas where they have these cute little logos and charts, but you don’t really connect them in the life of the church.  From the bigger churches, discipleship is a programming idea rather than a personal idea.  It’s about asking, “How is your discipleship journey going?  How do we come together as a body of believers to figure out how our collective discipleship journeys are going?”

What were some steps that you took?

We consolidated everyone into the same curriculum.  We use the Gospel Project.  Jon preaches on Sunday through the passage.  Our adults do that same passage in Bible study midweek. The next Sunday, we have discussion group prior to the service using lighter questions about the previous week’s passage.

Were there any changes that affected children’s ministry?

In big ways.  Previously, kids left during the service and went to children’s church.  We rearranged our church service so that children’s church is now before the service–the children sit in the service with everyone else.  The kids are learning with the adults the same material.   That was a big difference to integrate our kids into the service.  We felt that discipleship doesn’t start when you’re eighteen or when you make any claim to christianity.  It begins with the seekers.  Our kids are the seekers.  We don’t want to leave them off the spectrum of ministry because they are young.  It makes them part of the body instead of being segregated off to an activity, babysitting function.

Can you describe some changes you saw?

We just started a new quarter of our Wed night Bible study after summer. Typically we would have an ice breaker at the beginning.  That would be the time when they were most chatty.  For Bible study, we almost didn’t even read the questions because the discussion took off.  There was this thought that we should do away with the ice breaker questions so we would have more time to discuss.  It just shows how much has changed in the group members because to get rid of the things that used to be the most fun, that had nothing to do with the Bible, because we want to talk about the Bible more, is a big difference.  It shows a lot of growth in the group.  

Have you seen the coaching trickle down to the individual church member?

You hear more Bibles open and pages turning while the message is going on. That is a direct result of some of the changes we’ve made.  We also have had more involvement from members in the service.  At Bible study there has been more preparation.  The conversation in the morning has been much more robust because of the repetitive nature of our week. It’s all just one passage.  People are  ruminating on it more.  And that is contributing to a more robust discussion, which then contributes to them thinking about it more.  That has been encouraging to see.

Any last thoughts?

People are engaged throughout the entire week – Sunday morning discussion and the sermon and mid week Bible study, so they’re getting hit on all sides.  To see that growth when it’s all working together the way that we planned it is hugely beneficial. We can see that the changes had an impact in the way that we intended because the Co-lab gave us these tools to put it all together.

Discipleship Perspectives featuring Rhonda Spriggs

As I’ve been blogging about discipleship, I began to wonder what other church leaders and staff had to say about it. What are common experiences, frustrations, and hopes? Here’s my interview with Tom Fuerst, the senior pastor at Bluff City Church in Memphis, Tennessee.

Is the Church doing a good job of discipling congregations?

There are indicators that can be measured over generations which suggest we’re not doing a good job. If we’re just asking about programs, we are probably the most programmed people in the history of the world. But as each generation grows up, they don’t come back to church until they have children, and each generation comes back at a smaller percentage. This indicates that they don’t think the church has much to offer for their lives.”

What’s the biggest obstacle church leaders face?

On the staff end: We’re over-programmed. Additionally, leaders don’t want to do anything about discipleship even if they acknowledge that it’s weak. Our primary measurement is “butts in seats” because it looks like success.

On the congregation end: Things in church don’t matter. We have the greatest topic in the world to talk about, and we make it boring and undemanding. We try to keep people in church by entertaining them. But when people graduate and all they’ve been done is catered to, they discover that college groups can fulfill that better – the world entertains better. We’re not showing them how important this really is. We even have adults who have that assumption about the church.

Another major challenge is busyness. We don’t have healthy work/life balance to begin with. Then people have children, and they want their children involved in all the programs, to be busy. God would tell us not to do that with our lives. We don’t surrender our plans to Him, because He’d probably tell us to cut out half our activities.

You can see the problem reflected in the church attendance. Inconsistent attendance is the new norm because people are so busy.

If you look back in history, Ancient Israel understood worship service as a reordering of the world. The world is in chaos, and we reorder it by worshipping the Creator of order.

The final problem is laziness. If we’re honest, we don’t really think God matters, and we would rather watch football.

What do church leaders need?

The pull of American individualism and consumerism is so strong that I don’t know if we know what we need. And if we did, we wouldn’t want it. At the end of the day, our success needs to be measured by faithfulness to God – but the model held up by evangelicalism and conferences is that if you’re successful, you have lots of people. We’ve mixed capitalism into the way we measure church success by assuming that if you have a good church, you’ll have a big congregation. If the product you provide is meeting a genuine felt need, regardless of of the numbers, you will be successful. But what if, at the end of the day, God is not interested in being our product? I’m all for improving things and doing things with excellence – but what’s the motivation? I need the reminder that my identity is not the number of people listening to me. It’s hard.

To have genuine discipleship, we’ll have to dismantle capitalist, consumer, and celebrity Christianity. Just watch in a few years as a new celebrity pulls out a few verses and says this is how church is supposed to be!

We need greater appreciation for the story of the Bible. We don’t tell the story well; we either break it down into hyper-analyzed academic particles without the whole picture, or we think that people will be more drawn to our programs and entertainment than to the greatest story in the world.

Please feel free to comment and share constructive thoughts on these posts. I always love to hear more perspectives, so if you have your own thoughts on discipleship or topics you’d like to see covered in this blog, email me at natalie@ascendingleaders.org.

Discipleship Perspectives featuring Dr. Philip Tallon

As I’ve been blogging about discipleship, I began to wonder what other church leaders and staff had to say about it. What are common experiences, frustrations, and hopes? Here’s my interview with Tom Fuerst, the senior pastor at Bluff City Church in Memphis, Tennessee.

Is the Church doing a good job of discipling congregations?

There are indicators that can be measured over generations which suggest we’re not doing a good job. If we’re just asking about programs, we are probably the most programmed people in the history of the world. But as each generation grows up, they don’t come back to church until they have children, and each generation comes back at a smaller percentage. This indicates that they don’t think the church has much to offer for their lives.”

What’s the biggest obstacle church leaders face?

On the staff end: We’re over-programmed. Additionally, leaders don’t want to do anything about discipleship even if they acknowledge that it’s weak. Our primary measurement is “butts in seats” because it looks like success.

On the congregation end: Things in church don’t matter. We have the greatest topic in the world to talk about, and we make it boring and undemanding. We try to keep people in church by entertaining them. But when people graduate and all they’ve been done is catered to, they discover that college groups can fulfill that better – the world entertains better. We’re not showing them how important this really is. We even have adults who have that assumption about the church.

Another major challenge is busyness. We don’t have healthy work/life balance to begin with. Then people have children, and they want their children involved in all the programs, to be busy. God would tell us not to do that with our lives. We don’t surrender our plans to Him, because He’d probably tell us to cut out half our activities.

You can see the problem reflected in the church attendance. Inconsistent attendance is the new norm because people are so busy.

If you look back in history, Ancient Israel understood worship service as a reordering of the world. The world is in chaos, and we reorder it by worshipping the Creator of order.

The final problem is laziness. If we’re honest, we don’t really think God matters, and we would rather watch football.

What do church leaders need?

The pull of American individualism and consumerism is so strong that I don’t know if we know what we need. And if we did, we wouldn’t want it. At the end of the day, our success needs to be measured by faithfulness to God – but the model held up by evangelicalism and conferences is that if you’re successful, you have lots of people. We’ve mixed capitalism into the way we measure church success by assuming that if you have a good church, you’ll have a big congregation. If the product you provide is meeting a genuine felt need, regardless of of the numbers, you will be successful. But what if, at the end of the day, God is not interested in being our product? I’m all for improving things and doing things with excellence – but what’s the motivation? I need the reminder that my identity is not the number of people listening to me. It’s hard.

To have genuine discipleship, we’ll have to dismantle capitalist, consumer, and celebrity Christianity. Just watch in a few years as a new celebrity pulls out a few verses and says this is how church is supposed to be!

We need greater appreciation for the story of the Bible. We don’t tell the story well; we either break it down into hyper-analyzed academic particles without the whole picture, or we think that people will be more drawn to our programs and entertainment than to the greatest story in the world.

Please feel free to comment and share constructive thoughts on these posts. I always love to hear more perspectives, so if you have your own thoughts on discipleship or topics you’d like to see covered in this blog, email me at natalie@ascendingleaders.org.

Discipleship Perspectives featuring Phil Morrow

As I’ve been blogging about discipleship, I began to wonder what other church leaders and staff had to say about it. What are common experiences, frustrations, and hopes? Here’s my interview with Tom Fuerst, the senior pastor at Bluff City Church in Memphis, Tennessee.

Is the Church doing a good job of discipling congregations?

There are indicators that can be measured over generations which suggest we’re not doing a good job. If we’re just asking about programs, we are probably the most programmed people in the history of the world. But as each generation grows up, they don’t come back to church until they have children, and each generation comes back at a smaller percentage. This indicates that they don’t think the church has much to offer for their lives.”

What’s the biggest obstacle church leaders face?

On the staff end: We’re over-programmed. Additionally, leaders don’t want to do anything about discipleship even if they acknowledge that it’s weak. Our primary measurement is “butts in seats” because it looks like success.

On the congregation end: Things in church don’t matter. We have the greatest topic in the world to talk about, and we make it boring and undemanding. We try to keep people in church by entertaining them. But when people graduate and all they’ve been done is catered to, they discover that college groups can fulfill that better – the world entertains better. We’re not showing them how important this really is. We even have adults who have that assumption about the church.

Another major challenge is busyness. We don’t have healthy work/life balance to begin with. Then people have children, and they want their children involved in all the programs, to be busy. God would tell us not to do that with our lives. We don’t surrender our plans to Him, because He’d probably tell us to cut out half our activities.

You can see the problem reflected in the church attendance. Inconsistent attendance is the new norm because people are so busy.

If you look back in history, Ancient Israel understood worship service as a reordering of the world. The world is in chaos, and we reorder it by worshipping the Creator of order.

The final problem is laziness. If we’re honest, we don’t really think God matters, and we would rather watch football.

What do church leaders need?

The pull of American individualism and consumerism is so strong that I don’t know if we know what we need. And if we did, we wouldn’t want it. At the end of the day, our success needs to be measured by faithfulness to God – but the model held up by evangelicalism and conferences is that if you’re successful, you have lots of people. We’ve mixed capitalism into the way we measure church success by assuming that if you have a good church, you’ll have a big congregation. If the product you provide is meeting a genuine felt need, regardless of of the numbers, you will be successful. But what if, at the end of the day, God is not interested in being our product? I’m all for improving things and doing things with excellence – but what’s the motivation? I need the reminder that my identity is not the number of people listening to me. It’s hard.

To have genuine discipleship, we’ll have to dismantle capitalist, consumer, and celebrity Christianity. Just watch in a few years as a new celebrity pulls out a few verses and says this is how church is supposed to be!

We need greater appreciation for the story of the Bible. We don’t tell the story well; we either break it down into hyper-analyzed academic particles without the whole picture, or we think that people will be more drawn to our programs and entertainment than to the greatest story in the world.

Please feel free to comment and share constructive thoughts on these posts. I always love to hear more perspectives, so if you have your own thoughts on discipleship or topics you’d like to see covered in this blog, email me at natalie@ascendingleaders.org.

Discipleship Perspectives featuring Tom Fuerst

As I’ve been blogging about discipleship, I began to wonder what other church leaders and staff had to say about it. What are common experiences, frustrations, and hopes? Here’s my interview with Tom Fuerst, the senior pastor at Bluff City Church in Memphis, Tennessee.

Is the Church doing a good job of discipling congregations?

There are indicators that can be measured over generations which suggest we’re not doing a good job. If we’re just asking about programs, we are probably the most programmed people in the history of the world. But as each generation grows up, they don’t come back to church until they have children, and each generation comes back at a smaller percentage. This indicates that they don’t think the church has much to offer for their lives.”

What’s the biggest obstacle church leaders face?

On the staff end: We’re over-programmed. Additionally, leaders don’t want to do anything about discipleship even if they acknowledge that it’s weak. Our primary measurement is “butts in seats” because it looks like success.

On the congregation end: Things in church don’t matter. We have the greatest topic in the world to talk about, and we make it boring and undemanding. We try to keep people in church by entertaining them. But when people graduate and all they’ve been done is catered to, they discover that college groups can fulfill that better – the world entertains better. We’re not showing them how important this really is. We even have adults who have that assumption about the church.

Another major challenge is busyness. We don’t have healthy work/life balance to begin with. Then people have children, and they want their children involved in all the programs, to be busy. God would tell us not to do that with our lives. We don’t surrender our plans to Him, because He’d probably tell us to cut out half our activities.

You can see the problem reflected in the church attendance. Inconsistent attendance is the new norm because people are so busy.

If you look back in history, Ancient Israel understood worship service as a reordering of the world. The world is in chaos, and we reorder it by worshipping the Creator of order.

The final problem is laziness. If we’re honest, we don’t really think God matters, and we would rather watch football.

What do church leaders need?

The pull of American individualism and consumerism is so strong that I don’t know if we know what we need. And if we did, we wouldn’t want it. At the end of the day, our success needs to be measured by faithfulness to God – but the model held up by evangelicalism and conferences is that if you’re successful, you have lots of people. We’ve mixed capitalism into the way we measure church success by assuming that if you have a good church, you’ll have a big congregation. If the product you provide is meeting a genuine felt need, regardless of of the numbers, you will be successful. But what if, at the end of the day, God is not interested in being our product? I’m all for improving things and doing things with excellence – but what’s the motivation? I need the reminder that my identity is not the number of people listening to me. It’s hard.

To have genuine discipleship, we’ll have to dismantle capitalist, consumer, and celebrity Christianity. Just watch in a few years as a new celebrity pulls out a few verses and says this is how church is supposed to be!

We need greater appreciation for the story of the Bible. We don’t tell the story well; we either break it down into hyper-analyzed academic particles without the whole picture, or we think that people will be more drawn to our programs and entertainment than to the greatest story in the world.

Please feel free to comment and share constructive thoughts on these posts. I always love to hear more perspectives, so if you have your own thoughts on discipleship or topics you’d like to see covered in this blog, email me at natalie@ascendingleaders.org.

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